Several people have mentioned
to me a supplement called L-Carnosine, so I thought it was worthy of its own
post.
The first thing to note is
lots of supplements have very similar names and indeed two entirely different
substances are abbreviated to NAC.
·
Carnosine
·
Carnitine
·
L-Carnosine
·
L-Carnitine
·
N-Acetylcysteine
(abbreviated to “NAC”)
·
N-Acetylcarnosine
(also abbreviated to “NAC”)
In this blog, and in most
literature on autism, NAC refers to N-Acetylcysteine.
This post is about Carnosine
and L-Carnosine, but there is also research on the use of Carnitine
and L-Carnitine regarding autism and Retts syndrome. So double check what is on the label, if you
do indeed order some.
Vladimir Gulevich, Carnosine (and
Carnitine)
Vladimir Gulevich received the degree of doctor of medicine in
1896 from the department of medicine of Moscow State University. From 1900, he rejoined
the Moscow State University where he was rector for a brief period of time in
1919. He was a full member of the USSR Academy of Sciences since 1929.
Gulevich
discovered both Carnosine and Carnitine in his work in Moscow. Even today his university is a centre of
research for both these substances.
Carnitine and carnosine are composed of the root word carn,
meaning flesh, alluding to its prevalence in animal protein. A
vegetarian (especially vegan) diet is deficient in adequate carnosine, compared
to levels found in a standard diet.
Carnosine has been proven to scavenge reactive oxygen species (ROS) as well as alpha-beta unsaturated aldehydes formed from peroxidation of cell membrane fatty acids during oxidative stress.
Carnosine can chelate divalent metal ions. DAN Doctors probably do not know what divalent means, but in Hg2+ the “2” means divalent and Hg means mercury.
Carnosine was found to inhibit diabetic nephropathy.
Carnosine-containing products are also used in topical preparations to reduce wrinkles on the skin.
Some studies have detected beneficial effects of N-acetylcarnosine in preventing and treating cataracts of the eyes.
Carnosine and Autism
Small studies, including this one by Michael Chez, have shown the benefit of L-carnosine in
autism. By the way, Chez seems to be one
of the handful of genuinely knowledgeable autism clinicians anywhere on the
planet.
Abstract
L-Carnosine, a dipeptide, can enhance
frontal lobe function or be neuroprotective. It can also correlate with
gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)-homocarnosine interaction, with possible
anticonvulsive effects. We investigated 31 children with autistic spectrum
disorders in an 8-week, double-blinded study to determine if 800 mg L-carnosine
daily would result in observable changes versus placebo. Outcome measures were
the Childhood Autism Rating Scale, the Gilliam Autism Rating Scale, the
Expressive and Receptive One-Word Picture Vocabulary tests, and Clinical Global
Impressions of Change. Children on placebo did not show statistically
significant changes. After 8 weeks on L-carnosine, children showed
statistically significant improvements on the Gilliam Autism Rating Scale
(total score and the Behavior, Socialization, and Communication subscales) and
the Receptive One-Word Picture Vocabulary test (all P < .05). Improved
trends were noted on other outcome measures. Although the mechanism of action
of L-carnosine is not well understood, it may enhance neurologic function,
perhaps in the enterorhinal or temporal cortex.
As Dr Chez
points out, nobody is 100% certain why it is of benefit. It could just be the anti-oxidant properties
of carnosine or it could be something related to the interaction between
carnosine and GABA in the brain. GABA is
an important neurotransmitter in the brain.
Other GABA
related drugs show a positive effect in types of autism. These include Baclofen, Arbaclofen,
Bumetanide, Clonazepam and even Valproic acid (VPA). The underlying mechanisms do differ, but all
relate, in one way or the other, to GABA.
The Carnosine
dosage used by Dr Chez was 800mg per day.
The body deploys a range of enzymes, called carnosinases,
to break down carnosine. In order to
maximize the effect, and out-smart the carnosinases,
it might be wise to split the dose into two per day.
In a perfect world it might be simpler to inhibit the carnosinases
and just rely on the carnosine from meat in the diet.
You cannot patent naturally occurring substances, so
nobody can patent carnosine and no drug firm will therefore research it. A carnosinase inhibitor could be patented and
therefore could be made into a drug.
Carnosine and GABA
It looks
like Moscow State University is still the centre of knowledge for Carnosine and
Alexander A. Boldyrev recently published a book
called:-
Book Description:
The main aim of this new book is to summarize the knowledge on the metabolic transformation of carnosine in excitable tissues of animals and human beings and to analyze the nature of its biological activity. At the beginning of monograph, the short history of the problem is stated. Distribution of carnosine in tissues, its appearance in ontogeny of vertebrates and correlation between carnosine content and functional activity of tissues are discussed. Chemical properties of carnosine and its natural derivatives and their ability to bind heavy metals and protons in water solution are documented. Special attention is paid to free radical quenching ability and to anti-glycating action. Biological activity of carnosine and carnosine containing compounds was tested using biological models of several levels of complexity, starting from individual enzymes and acellular mixtures and finishing to living cells and survival animals. Effects of carnosine on the whole animals under ischemic, hypoxic and other extreme conditions are described. In conclusion, the ability of carnosine to protect brain and muscular tissues from oxidative injury during exhausting exercise, extreme loading or neurodegenerative diseases is demonstrated. Based on these properties, carnosine is postulated to be a potent protector of human beings from oxidative stress.
You can
preview much of the book on Google Books
We know from
many autism researchers that oxidative stress is a feature of many people’s autism. Anything that reduces this stress should have
a positive effect on behaviour.
Common
antioxidants used in autism include:-
·
N-Acetlycysteine
(NAC)
·
Alpha
Lipoic Acid (ALA)
·
All
the many “chelating” substances used by DAN Doctors
Carnosine
may be just an alternative anti-oxidant.
However,
when you look through Boldyrev’s book, it does look possible that the chemical relationship
between GABA and Carnosine many also play a role.
Conclusion
People
currently taking Carnosine for Autism might well want to try N-Acetlycysteine (NAC) and see if they notice
an additional benefit. Conversely, the
current NAC converts, like my son Monty, aged 11 with ASD, may well want to
give Carnosine a try and see what happens.
One blog reader
with Asperger’s finds Baclofen highly beneficial; he might as well give Carnosine a
try, based on the GABA relationship.
Current
research indicates 2,400 mg of NAC and 800 mg of Carnosine.
It would be
nice if one day somebody would do a controlled trial of NAC vs Carnosine vs
Carnosine+NAC; but don’t hold your
breath.
Some people
with diabetes are already taking ALA (Alpha lipoic acid) or Thioctacid for neuropathy,
but find it also increases insulin sensitivity; this means they need less
insulin. They might well find both NAC
and Carnosine will further increase insulin sensitivity. Generally speaking it seems that low insulin
sensitivity is bad and high insulin sensitivity is good; but I am no expert on
diabetes.
In some
counties Carnosine is not available, but you simply can buy it online on
Amazon, ebay or many other sites.
If you give it a try, let us know how it compares to NAC.
ReplyDeleteSure.
DeleteI will be back in a few weeks with with my impressions.
J.
So, I'm back to talk about L-Carnosine. I give my son, who is 3yo and weights 15.5kg, 500mg divided into 2 doses daily.
DeleteWhat I've noticed is that he is slightly better overall. Gross motor skill is the most visible improvement.
We had no undesired effects.
As it seems harmless, presents subtle but very positive results, and is accessible, I will keep it.
I expect cumulative benefit either as reparation or protection, and as he is young, I hope it will provide a significant effect in the long run.
Regards,
J.
Thanks for the feedback. Some people use L-Carnosine and L-Carnitine and some supplements combine both.
DeleteCarnitine is on my list, but I like to introduce them one at a time to reduce uncertainties.
DeleteAlso the article published by Dr. Chez points to the use of copper and zinc with carnosine, but I decided to not go in this direction yet.
Here is the link, if anyone is interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12585724
Hi, I'm back with more news and a question.
DeleteIt seems that now after 2 months with Carnosine, my son is less affected if we delay or even skip NAC eventually, something I did not expect to see after the remarkable effects we got with it.
I strongly believe it's related to the accumulated effect we got from L-Carnosine, as the only different thing we tried in the mean time was broccolli powder, that had no effect. Any thoughts?
J.
Very interesting. The only way to know for sure that it is indeed the L-Carnosine would be to stop it for a few days.
DeleteI do this with my trials to make sure the effect is genuine and to just use the most effective interventions.
Which broccoli powder did you use?
Hi there. 4 year old son with autism.. living in Holland and no help at all. Want to try the l carnosine.. read it by accident on the internet.. bought it bit scared about wich doses..
ReplyDeleteI would suggest you use NAC as an antioxidant for autism, it works in the great majority of cases. The same dose seems to needed for both small children and older ones, ie 600 mg 3 or 4 times a day. It will stop stimming/stereotypy/OCD almost straight away. We have used it for two years without any kind of side effect. Carnosine did not do any extra for us. It was the subject of a successful clinical trial at Stanford a couple of years ago.
DeleteThank you for your comment. I have to look if it is in store.. because of the strictness of the EU. A lot of medication is not allowed. So i was excited i could find l carnosine.. i want to help my son. . He used to be normal but now we lost contact
ReplyDeleteIf you cannot find in Holand, buy on line from UK. Look on Amazon.co.uk. Shipping within the EU is no problem.
DeleteDo you give the NAC with extra zinc? Our son is not verbal, and also mentally disabled.. I have my thought about the vaccins they gave him. It started with the age of 18 months.. It is a happy child, loves music and just running the whole day.. plays with his shadow.. makes noises but thats it... we did the cease therapy ( homeopatic docter has a method to remove the vaccins ) but not with a result.. i would be so happy with speach... cant tell you and i dont want to quit...Mascha
ReplyDeleteNo zinc, just look at the top of the page for Polypill for autism. These are the therapies that I found highly effective. They are not expensive.
DeleteI was giving my 25year old severely autistic son NAC when he was 10, as suggested by Dr.Bradstreet. I gave it to him with his breakfast, but by the time he got to school he was vomiting. I am still wondering why this would happen...any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteMary, it depends on the NAC. NAC tastes terrible, there is now a pleasant tasting version called PharmaNAC.
DeleteIf it was not the taste, it could be histamine intolerance, since NAC does have an effect on histamine. A small number of people cannot degrade histamine and so things like sodium benzoate (a common preservative in food/drink)and even cinnamon cause problems. Those people might vomit after NAC.
Any update on l carnosine now? This post is at least 5 years old so I am wondering if a lot of improvement occurred with the carnosine within the 5 years.
ReplyDeleteSome people do use L carnosine. I use a combination of drugs/supplement but not L carnosine. My son's therapy is here and has worked well for several years.
Deletehttps://epiphanyasd.blogspot.com/p/polypill-for-autism.html
It seems not much research has been done since 2002 on carnosine.
ReplyDeleteMH, there is a good review paper here from 2019
ReplyDeleteThe Potential of Carnosine in Brain-Related Disorders: A Comprehensive Review of Current Evidence
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6627134/
"Nevertheless, provisional human studies have shown promising results of supplementation with carnosine or its precursors in specific cognitive functions, improvements in core or secondary symptoms of ASD, schizophrenia, fatigue related disorders, ADHD, and OCD or augmentation of standard treatment of PD. Well designed and adequately powered trials in these disorders are warranted."
There is also N‐acetylcarnosine, which is sold as an eye drop. Carnosine cannot enter the eye, but N‐acetylcarnosine apparently can. The eye is part of the central nervous system (CNS). Does some of this carnosine reach the brain?
Hi Everyone, I wanted to chime in here.
ReplyDeleteMy understand is that what you really should look into instead is beta-alanine (β-Alanine), its much cheaper than Carnosine and increases levels of Carnosine in the body much more than consuming Carnosine.
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%92-Alanine)
"Supplementation with β-alanine has been shown to increase the concentration of carnosine in muscles, decrease fatigue in athletes, and increase total muscular work done.[7][8] Simply supplementing with carnosine is not as effective as supplementing with β-alanine alone since carnosine, when taken orally, is broken down during digestion to its components, histidine and β-alanine. Hence, by weight, only about 40% of the dose is available as β-alanine."
"β-Alanine is the rate-limiting precursor of carnosine, which is to say carnosine levels are limited by the amount of available β-alanine, not histidine."
"There is evidence that β-alanine supplementation can increase exercise and COGNITIVE performance."
-Michael
Hi Michael,
DeleteI tried β-alanine to boost the L-carnosine in my brain. The beta-alanine certainly boosted my muscle performance, but no effect on my brain as far as I could tell.
I found this study that says beta-alanine doesn't increase brain levels of L-carnosine:
"28 d of beta-alanine supplementation at 6.4g d-1 appeared not to influence brain homocarnosine/carnosine signal in either omnivores or vegetarians; nor did it influence cognitive function before or after exercise in trained cyclists."
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123857 - Effects of Beta-Alanine Supplementation on Brain Homocarnosine/Carnosine Signal and Cognitive Function: An Exploratory Study
Peter,
ReplyDeleteIn a recent urine amino acids test, we found that my son Vik has values of many amino acids like Alanine, Cystine, Carnosine, Glutamine, Leucine, Threonine, Tyrosine, Valine etc. lower than the reference range. None of them were on the higher side though. In particular, Carnosine was at 0.2 micromol/g creatinine with reference range being 12-927. But I am not sure what this means since I do not see any papers drawing conclusions or even measuring Carnosine in urine sometimes. Nevertheless I am gonna try supplementing L-Carnosine to see if it has any effect.
Another interesting result was his plasma lactate at 4.1 mmol/L. They did use a tourniquet during blood collection but it does look high even after accounting for it. The paper you shared mentions that Carnosine reduces lactate accumulation so these two may be related.
Anvesh
You might want to consider CoQ10 and the other supplements for mitochondrial dysfunction. See if there is a benefit.
DeleteI have Asperger's and I loved the affect Carnosine had on me when I first started it, it was very pleasant and euphoric. The noticable impact seems to have warn off unfortunately. I now also give it to my son who has classic Autism.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you have any opinion on LTheanine? It also seems to impact the GABA/Glutamate. My brother is Schizophrenic and says the Theanine made him extremely agitated. But he was also running low on his Risperidone.