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Thursday, 7 March 2019

A Case Study Treating Adult Hypoxia with Clemastine - a potential treatment to promote myelin recovery in premature infants


I did think we had finished with Clemastine for a while, but a researcher reader of this blog sent me a very interesting recent case study about a man with brain damage caused by hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and we have the MRI brain scans showing how that damage was reversed by this OTC antihistamine. Hypoxia is often caused by carbon monoxide poisoning or in childbirth, if things get tangled up.


The researchers go on to suggest Clemastine treatment to promote myelin recovery in premature infants. In this case the graphics in the paper relate to mice, not humans, but are really impressive.
This means that what is called Ataxic Cerebral Palsy, which is caused by a lack of oxygen during birth might now have a treatment.
Some children with autism, including some discussed in the comments in this blog, appear to have suffered hypoxia during birth. This caused damage which resulted in symptoms of autism.  You would expect that damage to show up on the “right sort of MRI” in the same way as the adult male, below. Some of these children are reported by parents to respond to hyperbaric oxygen, even though it is carried out years after the hypoxia.

Findings in human DPHL case treated with clemastine. Axial FLAIR (fluid attenuated inversion recovery) at 1 (A), 2 (B), 6 (C), and 12 (D) months after injury in a human case of DPHL, showing MRI white matter abnormalities on FLAIR and diffusion weighted images, subtle at 1 month and striking at 2 months, parallel to patient’s worsening clinical course; white matter signal changes showed a periventricular/ deep white matter distribution with involvement of the corpus callosum (particularly splenium), with sparing of U-fibres. The patient was started on clemastine treatment at 2 months. At 6 months, MRI abnormalities in the white matter were partially normalized, showing fuzzy signal changes, unchanged at 12 months follow-up.

What I found interesting was the time delay, it was two months after the hypoxia that the man’s symptoms became really severe, but rather than being game over, the white patches in the month 2 MRI gradually fade away, after clemastine treatment started.
In my posts on autism and myelin, I pointed out that the problem appears to be re-myelination, which is the repair and maintenance of existing myelin. In autism you could consider it as “Friday afternoon myelination”, when the oligodendrocytes are thinking more about the weekend than your axons. In the man in the case study he already had plenty of myelin prior to his hypoxia, but the hypoxia affected his capacity to re-myelinate his axons.
The progressive cognitive decline with profound short-term memory loss, impaired executive function, and paucity of speech, psychomotor retardation, urinary incontinence and gait impairment was reversed.  The patient was seen in follow-up 5 months after his hypoxic event. His cognitive function had markedly improved and he was able to return to work.  All thanks to OTC clemastine and I think he should thank someone for reading the Multiple Sclerosis research on clemastine.
The researchers then looked in detail at a mouse model of hypoxia and among other things, Myelin Basic Protein (MBP).


suggesting a rescue of MBP expression defects by clemastine during chronic hypoxia
Daily treatment with oral clemastine during hypoxia leads to significant (3-fold) increases in MBP in the cerebellar foliae compared to untreated hypoxic littermates
We found that oral administration of clemastine in murine neonatal hypoxia leads to significant increases in the numbers of differentiating OPCs expressing the markers proteolipid protein (Plp) and myelin associated glycoprotein (Mag) mRNA in corpus callosum and striatum compared to untreated hypoxic littermates




Clemastine promotes myelin protein expression in neonatal hypoxia.(A) MBP protein expression in the (A) forebrain, (C) striatum white matter of postnatal Day 10 (P10) normoxic mice (‘Normoxia’), versus those exposed to neonatal hypoxia (‘Hypoxia’), versus hypoxic littermates treated with clemastine (‘Hypoxia + Clemastine’) 

Hypoxia can injure brain white matter tracts, comprised of axons and myelinating oligodendrocytes, leading to cerebral palsy in neonates and delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy (DPHL) in adults. In these conditions, white matter injury can be followed by myelin regeneration, but myelination often fails and is a significant contributor to fixed demyelinated lesions, with ensuing permanent neurological injury. Non-myelinating oligodendrocyte precursor cells are often found in lesions in plentiful numbers, but fail to mature, suggesting oligodendrocyte precursor cell differentiation arrest as a critical contributor to failed myelination in hypoxia. We report a case of an adult patient who developed the rare condition DPHL and made a nearly complete recovery in the setting of treatment with clemastine, a widely available antihistamine that in preclinical models promotes oligodendrocyte precursor cell differentiation. This suggested possible therapeutic benefit in the more clinically prevalent hypoxic injury of newborns, and we demonstrate in murine neonatal hypoxic injury that clemastine dramatically promotes oligodendrocyte precursor cell differentiation, myelination, and improves functional recovery. We show that its effect in hypoxia is oligodendroglial specific via an effect on the M1 muscarinic receptor on oligodendrocyte precursor cells. We propose clemastine as a potential therapy for hypoxic brain injuries associated with white matter injury and oligodendrocyte precursor cell maturation arrest. 


Conclusion

The days of cheap clemastine in North America are probably numbered.



67 comments:

  1. Clemastine is described as one of the FIASMAs found in the research below. Echoes some of the sphingomyelin-buttermilk discussions earlier, doesn't it?

    "We describe a hitherto unknown feature for 27 small drug-like molecules, namely functional inhibition of acid sphingomyelinase (ASM). These entities named FIASMAs (Functional Inhibitors of Acid SphingoMyelinAse), therefore, can be potentially used to treat diseases associated with enhanced activity of ASM, such as Alzheimer's disease, major depression, radiation- and chemotherapy-induced apoptosis
    ()
    Acid sphingomyelinase is a lysosomal glycoprotein that catalyses the hydrolysis of sphingomyelin into ceramide and phosphorylcholine.
    ()
    cytokines such as tumor necrosis factor-α, interleukin-1 and interferon-γ but also other stimuli including oxidative stress, reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, ionizing radiation, UV-C radiation, heat shock and other agents of stress, injury or infections by HIV or bacteria have been shown to stimulate ceramide production [2]–[7], assumed to be in part due to increased ASM activity. Ceramide, in turn, leads to membrane reorganization and downstream signalling that results in cell activation, very often cell stress or apoptosis"

    Identification of Novel Functional Inhibitors of Acid Sphingomyelinase
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166082/

    /Ling

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    1. Ling, it may be that Clemastine really has many applications in neurological disorders for multiple reasons. This is like NAC/ALA that have multiple benefits in numerous disorders.

      I think it is 10 euros well spent to see if it is beneficial.

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    2. Any idea where to buy it ? Seems disappeared from US

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    3. https://www.tevausa.com/our-products/tevagenerics/teva-generics-catalog/vision-product-page/clemastinefumaratetabletsusp

      Delete
  2. Hi Peter, Clemastine dose used in that n=1 trial was 2x5.36 mg. Again, as in MS trial, it is higher than typical dose for allergy or used by the progressive psychiatrist from the US. I wonder if one should try high dose Clemastine at some point to assess the effects for autism, which I think are rather unpredictable?

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    1. I think it is a question of side effects. No reasonable person would question using the long established allergy dose (or lower), to see if you can improve autism. This dose might not have been effective in the man in the above trial.

      It might well be that higher dose, when needed, is only needed for a relatively short period of time as in the above n=1 trial.

      People with MS and the man in the above trial have abnormal MRIs. People with autism are usually said to have unremarkable MRIs. As I understand it, you can be very clever with MRIs if you know what you are looking for.

      There probably is existing data on the safety of the higher doses now being used in the MS trials. It may be that sedation is the only real issue, in which case giving the large dose at bedtime would seem to get around the problem.

      Delete
    2. Yes, most people with “autism” do not have any abnormalities in the routine MRI. On the other hand there are people with “autism” who can be described in a similar way as the man in the clemastine trial:
      “impaired executive function, and paucity of speech, psychomotor retardation, urinary incontinence and gait impairment, flat affect, orientation only to self, perseveration, apraxia, impaired verbal recall”.

      So I wonder if there can be some pathway shared to target with clemastine high dose. Motor issues in “autism” also come to my mind.

      My personal experience with ~2 months on clemastine 1-2 mg daily: son’s speech got better including the most significant articulation improvement since what is now thought to be metabolic stroke few years ago. I would be sure if it can be clemastine related probably only after withdrawal trial.
      Sedation is the last word that can describe him recently though and I wonder if this can be a paradoxical reaction to clemastine in fact.

      Regarding side effects, before high dose clemastine trial I would check ECG/EKG to rule out “long QT”, which is typical for Timothy’s syndrome channelopathy and anecdotally I was told by one doctor that it happens unusually often in “autism”:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30059791
      “Clemastine and dimetindene should be avoided in patients with LQTS.” to prevent dangerous heart arrhythmia.

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    3. Agnieszka, when I look up this man's symptoms using the term Multiple Sclerosis I find most of them. I think myelin is the common pathway, and that faulty myelination likely is a key part of some "autism".

      I also looked up the use of MRI to study/measure myelination - everything exists today for a clever radiologist to do this. Perhaps we should forget routine MRIs and raise the standard higher. Use MRI as a precise diagnostic tool to its full potential.

      I think everyone treating autism with drugs should have an ECG, because so many of the drugs can also affect heart function.

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    4. Peter, I believe that myelination is an issue in my son's autism. I am curious about this but at the same time concerned about the cardiac effects as I am still not aware of a channelopathy but I suspect. He had so much electrosmog exposure in his class and he began to have impairment of gait, temporal and focal dysfunction, and it alarmed in me oligodendrocytes and myelination. Not only that but the mast cell degranulation after hours in that warzone is enough. Once I got him out of the toxic warzone of electrosmog in his classroom the gait abnormality and other symptoms improved. I believe that their could be something underlying here and that the electrosmog just might of amplified it. I was worried about a degeneration of CNS gliosis and ataxia so I pulled him out of that nightmare. BBB permeability that is uncontrolled is never a good idea. Myelin Oligodendrocyte induced allergy/autoimmune encephalopathy and or Mast cell activated induced demyelination.

      Delete
  3. I think it was AJ who looked into GSK3B and Peter at HCN channels...

    "Our data imply GSK3β activity in the protection of neuronal networks from hyper-activation in response to epileptogenic stimuli and indicate that the anti-epileptogenic function of GSK3β involves modulation of HCN4 level and the synaptic AMPA receptors pool."

    GSK3β activity alleviates epileptogenesis and limits GluA1 phosphorylation.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30502054

    /Ling

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  4. Any chance of getting Piracetam in Spain - what do you think?

    -anonymous

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    1. In Spain it is called Nootropil and it looks like anyone can buy it in a pharmacy or on-line.

      Delete
  5. Peter, if you believe one of your 3 boys may have schizophrenia, what treatments would you investigate and pursue first? Would you put clemastine near or at the top of the list?

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    1. How old is he?

      Schizophrenia, like autism, is a broad observational diagnosis. Some people have autism with some features of schizophrenia, some people have autism with some features of bipolar.

      There are many overlapping therapies between autism, schizophrenia and bipolar, but there are also some big differences.

      You need to consider what the unusual behaviors are and then look to what the possible biological underpinnings might be.

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    2. Just saw this article recently although I am not sure what the most promising treatment ideas would be. Maybe some probiotics and prebiotic fibre.
      http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2019/02/07/gut-bugs-may-shape-schizophrenia/#.XIh6j6ApCUl
      There is a link to the paper in the article.

      Delete
    3. It is interesting that you could use bacteria to treat schizophrenia. It looks like epilepsy will be the first neurological disorder to be widely treated using gut bacteria given in the form of a "medical food".

      We also saw the cancer specialist developing a yoghurt to prevent a type of childhood leukemia. At first it sounds mad, but it is deadly serious.

      Delete
    4. Generally for schizophrenia one of the dominant theories is the one of hypofunctioning NMDA receptors. One older one is about dopamine. Also, oxidative stress is a part of the picture, especially as it is reciprocally linked to hypo NMDArs.
      Now there are certainly schizophrenia variants that do not match with the above, but it is a starting point for exploration.
      I would look into sulphoraphane, bacopa and fisetin, d- or l-serine, cinnamon, GOS/FOS (Bimuno?) before antipsychotics.

      /Ling

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    5. And, looking at the posts above maybe also piracetam and clemastine too.
      /Ling

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    6. It is thought that high levels of Kynurenic acid is one of the contributing factors to NMDA receptor hypoactivity as it is an NMDA antagonist. Kynurenic acid is derived from L-Kynurenine which is derived from L-Tryptophan. So BCAA therapy plus Nicotanimide Riboside which helps limit Tryptophan and L-Kynurenine into the brain as BCAA's have competitive entry with aromatic amino acids via the blood brain barrier, should help lower Kynurenic acid production. Add in some L-DOPA or Mucuna Pruriens (herbal form) if you want to replace the lost dopamine since BCAA's will also block Tyrosine and Phenylalanine which are the precursor amino acids for producing L-DOPA. Nevertheless, though I would not bother with adding the list dopamine back in at first because it is thought that excessively high dopamine levels in the brain help contribute to schizophrenic symptoms, so limiting Tryptophan, Tyrosine, and Phenylalanine into the brain may help with both potential problems.

      Delete
    7. Just a few more links that might be worth looking into.

      Longer-term outcome in the prevention of psychotic disorders by the Vienna omega-3 study
      https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms8934

      N-Acetylcysteine for the Treatment of Psychiatric Disorders: A Review of Current Evidence
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6217900/

      For sometimes interesting research news: https://twitter.com/tompollak

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    8. One last thing about the Vienna omega-3 study (unfortunately not open access):
      "Taking into account all other significant predictors, changes in EPA levels were found to be the single most significant predictor for transition to psychosis in a longer term observation of UHR (Ultra High Risk) individuals."
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28823721

      I really will stop now. Hope some of this is helpful.

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    9. Thanks Tyler for that post! I should really take a look at the kynurenine pathway soon. :-)
      /Ling

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    10. Maybe of interest : "In summary, within the methodological limitations of the current design, our study questions the prevailing model of excess KynA production in affective psychosis, and indicates that further research is necessary to fully capture the biological role of the kynurenine pathway in both depression and affective psychosis."
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5534956/

      Delete
    11. Another one that I think could be interesting:
      http://foodandmoodcentre.com.au/about/current-studies/
      "In 2018-2019, Additionally, building on the cutting edge neuroscience (animal) research carried out by our colleagues at James Cook University in Queensland, we will conduct a pilot intervention study of the ketogenic diet (KD) for assessing feasibility and potential benefits to psychotic symptoms in psychotic inpatients."

      Delete
    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    13. Just replacing the comment I deleted above.
      I wanted to add that it's important to supplement with B vitamins if using NAC (as Peter has explained).
      "Its positive effects on the redox balance, neuroinflammation, and NMDA receptor functioning in combination with its mild side-effect profile make NAC a preferred candidate molecule for further study with preventive potential when applied early in the course of schizophrenia."
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849435/

      Delete
    14. Just a couple more links with ideas related to schizophrenia treatments. Saw this in the reviews of the book The Complete Family Guide to Schizophrenia
      https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2JRJGBDOXE418/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1593851804

      This is a psychiatrist researching the keto diet as therapy
      https://www.chrispalmermd.com/ketogenic-diet-schizophrenia/

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    15. Peter (or Ling) you have written about beet root for schizophrenia. Is nitric oxide a good thing or bad thing for schizophrenia? Confused.

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    16. It is more complicated, because it depends where the nitric oxide is. If someone has schizophrenia they might well try beet root juice and separately Agmatine. The effect is not the same, but both do relate to Nitric oxide/ nitric oxide synthase.

      Delete
  6. Ling have you tried bimuno yet? Btw bimuno is different than gos/fos from what I understand.

    Also this study suggests that is lowers CARS (cortisol awakening response), this could lead to sluggishness when getting out of bed imo:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4410136/

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    Replies
    1. Nope, not yet. It's a bit pricey and I don't expect it to have the same impact as drugs. As a parent to a 3-year old, some sluggishness getting out of the bed could actually be a feature on weekends. ;-)

      But I would like to know in what way you think that Bimuno is different? (Thank you for the link)

      /Ling

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    2. It seems to alter nr2b signalling (by increasing its expression in the hippocampus) and yes I agree it wont be as powerfull as some meds by any means.

      Delete
    3. Well, it is on my "to try" list, due to this article:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29174530

      GOS has a slightly different impact on NMDArs:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24140431

      Maybe we've read the same ones? :-)

      /Ling

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    4. A couple of months later, and I've done a first Bimuno trial for 30 days. Half of the times I do any gut-related intervention it is because there was an actual problem, which make the results a bit hard to interprete. What I can say is that gut issues got better, we had no adverse effects and coincidence or not but we had syllables during the time of intervention but neither before or after. I'll certainly repeat this procedure in the future.

      /Ling

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  7. Hello Peter. It has been a few years since I have posted on your site. Dr Richard Frye, who I learned about from reading this blog, moved his practice last year to the city I happen to live in (Phoenix, AZ). When I learned that, I immediately got my son an appointment with him. He has been my son's neurologist for about a year now and has put my son through some of his more milder treatments (carnitine, leucovorin). Unfortunately, we have not seen much improvement. In our last appointment, he mentioned maybe trying Bumetanide and mentioned that when it works, it's effects are pretty profound. Can you imagine having a Neurologist actually suggesting off label medications such as this?

    What is the latest news with Bumetanide as a treatement for Autism? Is the Ben-Ari and Lemmonnier trial complete? Is that company they formed (Neurochlore I think) doing anything?

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    1. JB, Neurochlore licensed a French drug firm called Servier to further develop/fund Bumetanide as an autism therapy in Europe. The phase 3 trial with 200 young children is in progress, but it is a 12 month trial. There is no application for approval in the US, that I know of (it is a very expensive process). Neurochlore is developing a new drug that does a better job of crossing the blood brain barrier than bumetanide.

      I was told that the liquid form of Bumetanide might be approved for autism and available around 2022 in Europe. So 10 years after my son started to take it.

      Delete
  8. Hi Peter,

    I recently spoke to one of the people in charge of the Bumetanide trials in France (I’m not sure if he wants me to name him publicly) and told me that living in Spain I have a great opportunity to trial Bumetanide as it’s OTC, and he sent me a guide for my daughter’s paediatrician/Neurologist on its safe use.

    Surprisingly this Paediatrician is happy for us to trial it. However he’s not optimistic although I believe he is a bit biased as he offers TMS which according to him targets a similar mode of action. What are your thoughts on TMS? Apparently my daughter doesn’t qualify for it until she is 6 which is in September, which gives us adequate time to see if she responds to Bumetanide. Would you try both if my daughter is a bumetanide responder?

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  9. Kei, I think all kids with an autism diagnosis should have a 30 day trial of Bumetanide. I think 30-40% will be genuine responders, another 10% may change behaviours a bit, because of a shift in electrolytes.

    TMS may help, but it is nothing to do with the suggested mode of action of bumetanide. Bumetanide is cheap and simple, maybe that is why the Paediatrician prefers TMS?

    Most bumetanide responders take about 10-15 days to show the effect. If/when it comes, you will not miss it, neither will teachers at school.

    You do need to add back potassium and drink a lot of fluids to add back what is lost in diuresis.

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  10. Hi again Peter,

    Thanks for replying.

    The French Dr I spoke to told me they have an 85% positive response rate with no idea why the other 15% don’t respond. He said sometimes it takes up to 3 months to see a response but if after that time we don’t see any change then it’s time to call it quits.

    He also like you said that 30% of users need potassium supplementation and that it’s important to check levels at days 7,14, 30 and 60.

    Because my daughter is under 25kgs it’s recommended that we give her 0.5mgs Bumetanide in the morning and 0.5mgs in the afternoon.

    Our Spanish paediatrician wants us to start even lower for the first week so I won’t start officially counting until day 8. We have started after paying the exorbitant price of 2€ for a packet of 30.

    Fingers crossed!!




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  11. Peter, we've been trying clemastine this month at .5mg/twice daily and are seeing massive improvements across the board. My son had a hypoxic injury at birth and after, so this got my attention last month when you posted. I ordered it from overseas and have been dosing it for about 3 weeks now...Honestly, I haven't seen this much improvement in almost a year, even with the HBOT we are doing. He's approaching 6 this summer and still struggles with speech, but these past two weeks have seen tremendous improvements in social interaction, especially with his brother and other kids, though still very shy. He is playing with toys more appropriately, which was unexpected but very welcome of course. His language has improved dramatically in comprehension, response time, short term memory from conversation/requests, you name it...it's getting better. Motor control and movement doesn't seem to be as intensely improving, but I'm going to give it time. So much has changed in such a short period, keeping fingers crossed.
    He's also on butenamide (and potassium) with the clemastine. Think I should get an ekg done to be safe?
    Thanks for this one, it's a keeper I hope!

    MKate

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    1. Hi MKate,

      I have nothing to add scientifically, but as the dad of a child with ASD, I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled for you and your family!

      AJ

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    2. Happy to hear about your improvements MKate!
      I'm handing over this very recent article for you:

      Minocycline mitigates the effect of neonatal hypoxic insult on human brain organoids
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459920/

      /Ling

      Delete
    3. MKate - So happy for you. Just to let you know if you are in the US you can get clemastine made by Teva with a prescription. They are 2mg tablets but it is not too difficult to cut them into 4 with a pill cutter. I wish we had this option in Canada.
      LG

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    4. MKate, that is great to hear. An ECG is a good idea and will give you peace of mind.

      Delete
    5. To LG, Ling, and AJ--Thank you for your well wishes, I hope for the very best for your kids also. Honestly I haven't done many new biomed interventions this year, since we did 23andme last April. Getting some info on methylation was really helpful and he has been making lots of good progress in new skills, especially with b12 shots. As far as meds and supps, aside from the new addition of clemastine, we do bumetanide+K, NAC, Kirkman's multivitamin with methylated b12 and folate, and low dose naltrexone, which has been a godsend for dealing with food allergies, gut healing and the evil nemesis AKA microglial activation.
      mkate

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    6. Peter, I have a possibly silly question~
      Was reading about clemastine on wikipedia (not always the best source, I know) and it described it as having an anticholinergic effect. Uh, isn't that a bad thing, as in the opposite of what we're trying to achieve? Or Is this another case of the devil is in the details of the dose? Does the higher dose act differently to the recommended dose? I'm stumped. I really didn't want to go higher on this as it would become quite sedating.
      Many Thanks,
      Mkate

      Delete
    7. MKate, at higher doses you may find there are other effects. This is true with many drugs and the effect does often vary between people. 10% might have a side effect and 90% not. Giving clemastine in the evening solves any sedating issue.

      Delete
    8. My daughter gets dry skin with 1/4 of a clemastine tablet twice a day. It is a very obvious side effect, and the one Peter predicted for anticholinergics. Not sure if it means anything to brain levels though.

      /Ling

      Delete
    9. ..and that are 1 mg pills.
      /Ling

      Delete
  12. Mkate, thanks for posting this, I'm delighted for you! I'm going to increase my sons' dose to 0.5 mg bid.
    They are both on 0.5 mg Bumetanide daily and haven't been able to increase yet due to urgent diuresis at school. What dose of Bumetanide and potassium do you give your sons?
    Thanks again. RS

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    1. Hi RS,
      I have my son, who is about 50-52 lbs, on 1 mg bumetanide in the AM. And I also dose about 175-200 mg liquid potassium citrate once a day or every other day. I don't skip more than one day just to be safe. It sounds haphazard of me but at this point I can usually tell when he is low on potassium just by knowing him and his behavior, he gets very disgruntled and is usually back to himself after a good 200, 250 mg dose. Yes, he pees/drinks a lot in the first half of the day, and getting to the potty in time can be a struggle. I feel your pain :D
      Best of luck~
      MKate

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    2. Sorry RS--I have my son on Ionic Potassium, with potassium chloride as the main ingredient. Just search amazon for Good State Ionic Potassium, that's the one we use. :)
      MKate

      Delete
  13. Mkate's son had a hypoxic injury at birth and after. This is probably where Clemastine is more effective ( than others).
    Yi

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  14. Hi Peter!

    Thanks so much for all your information about Clemastine fumarate.
    I started a trial of it on March 14, 2019.
    For those reading, I am Aspergers/56 y.o. woman.
    I have always had trouble taking antihistimines... a regular dose of Benadryl (1 tablet/25 mg can knock me out for most of a day). Once or twice a week when I really need to go to sleep and stay asleep I will take 1/2 of a Benadryl tablet (12.5 mg)...
    And like my reaction to Benadryl, my reaction to Clemastine has been similar. I took one tablet of Clemastine (a 1 mg tablet--this is the only dosage I can find)... and that one tablet really knocked me off my feet for 24 hours... so sleepy and tired that I could only sit in a chair for most of the day. My mind was foggy and thick.
    So, I quickly reduced dosage to 1/4 (.25mg of a 1 mg tablet), and took this right before bed. This dose and timing was good. The first couple of mornings, I felt a very slight elevating of mood...cheerier I think.
    I tried to do a .25 mg a couple of nights in a row... that also is too sedating for me... I had difficulty getting up on the second morning.
    So, for me, the best dose seems to be .25 mg (again, of a 1 mg tablet) every other night.
    But, I am encouraged by the doctor Peter quoted who said a little bit is effective and to not give up on this medicine as it can take a while. So, that's what I am going to do: Take .25 mg of Clemastine every other night for a couple of years... and evaluate as I go along.

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  15. Hi Peter, my sister will be on London by next week, can she find clemastine in any pharmacy OTC? Propranolol has been a life saver, hope my son can take both together.
    Valentina

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    Replies
    1. Valentina, Tavegil (Clemastine) is available in UK pharmacies without prescription to treat allergy. You sister will have to get in line to ask the pharmacist, because it is kept with the drugs. If they do not have it in stock they should be able to order it to come the next day. One pack of 60 tablets cost about 10 pounds. If your sister explains that it is not sold in her country they should be happy to sell more than 2 packs, if not she just goes to the next pharmacy and buys some there as well.

      Delete
    2. Valentina, I have just tried to buy Tavegil in two pharmacies in London.

      Neither had it in stock, neither had heard of it and neither offered to order it.

      Nonetheless, Tavegil is OTC in the UK and a helpful pharmacist just has to order it for you on his computer.

      I buy my Tavegil by ordering from a UK pharmacy with its own web-shop for delivery to a UK address. It takes about 3 days to arrive.

      Here is an example:-

      https://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/tavegil-tablets/prd-m7r

      Many such pharmacies limit you to 2 or 3 packs.

      A helpful pharmacist can order Tavegil to any UK pharmacy for next day collection. But clearly there are many lazy pharmacists.

      So your sister either has to be very firm and insist they take the effort to order it, or she can buy from one or two UK online pharmacies to the address she is staying in the UK.

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    3. Valentina, I had a chat with a pharmacist at the big retail pharmacy in the UK called Boots. You definitely can order drugs they do not usually carry. You just need to ask for Tavegil and perhaps also tell them the generic name is Clemastine. They can tell your sister immediately whether it is in stock at the distributor and when they can get it in store. This is really fast with drugs, so the next day.

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    4. propranolol helps here too but it makes him hyper. It stops SIB within 5 minutes andbedwetting. I am trying clemastine now which is helping sleep and speech but he looks little agitated.

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    5. Akhdan, how much Clemastine do you give?

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  16. Thanks Peter! I sent her the Boots link with all the details you told me. She will be in London and Cotswolds, let's see if she has luck.
    Valentina

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  17. Hello you all, I have a son with 8 years old, With HIE at his birth...he as moderate severe autism, I saw that publication just now, can you followup the treatment with Clemastine is going well with your kids? thanks in advance

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  18. Hi Peter,

    I would Like to try it on my son who had hypoxia third day of life (i already write to you because of bumetamide)
    Where can I buy clemastine in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia or Slovenia without doctor presciption?do you maybe know name of the drog in these countries?What dosage (12y,55kg)?

    Thanks Peter

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    Replies
    1. Clemastine is sold as Tavegil or Tavegyl in many European countries. Because it is just an antihistamine, in most countries it does not need a prescription. Look it up on Google "buy Tavegil" within the EU you should be able to get it online.
      Use the allergy dose just in the evening, to avoid daytime drowsiness.

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  19. Great,thank you,i will find a way to buy it.
    Can I give it during the time Im giving bumetanide?I give bumetanide in a morning,and clemastine at night (one tablet).
    How long is a safe for using clemastine?

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    Replies
    1. Yes you can give it while you are still taking bumetanide.

      See if clemastine shows a benefit. It has multiple potential benefits, but they will take time to develop. I would trial it for 3 months then decide if it helps. We used it for a few years. It can reduce acetylcholine so giving it forever might not be wise, but I think that is more of a problem in old people.

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