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Wednesday, 8 November 2023

Glycine-NAC for longevity, but for Autism? and Ketogenic “Autistic” Fish


Fish taking a ketone ester

Lonesome fish

  

Baylor College of Medicine in the US have a patent on the combination of glycine and the anti-oxidant NAC to promote healthy aging, which they licensed to Nestle. You can easily make it yourself - just buy both separately. 

GlyNAC supplementation reverses mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress and aging hallmarks to boost strength and promote health in aging humans

One of the intriguing questions from this trial is why so many improvements occur toward promoting health. We believe that this is due to the combined effort of three separate components – glycine, cysteine (from NAC) and glutathione, and not just due to glutathione itself. Glycine and cysteine are both very important for cellular health on their own, and GlyNAC provides both. 

We believe that the improvements in this trial and in our previous studies are the result of the combined effects of glycine and NAC and glutathione, and we refer to this combination as the "Power of 3" said Sekhar.

You need cysteine and glycine to make the body's key antioxidant, glutathione (GSH).  Older people and people with autism are likely to lack GSH.

If you add the precursors via supplementation, you will hopefully increase the production of GSH.



  

GlyNAC (Glycine and N-Acetylcysteine) Supplementation in Mice Increases Length of Life by Correcting Glutathione Deficiency, Oxidative Stress, Mitochondrial Dysfunction, Abnormalities in Mitophagy and Nutrient Sensing, and Genomic Damage

Determinants of length of life are not well understood, and therefore increasing lifespan is a challenge. Cardinal theories of aging suggest that oxidative stress (OxS) and mitochondrial dysfunction contribute to the aging process, but it is unclear if they could also impact lifespan. Glutathione (GSH), the most abundant intracellular antioxidant, protects cells from OxS and is necessary for maintaining mitochondrial health, but GSH levels decline with aging. Based on published human studies where we found that supplementing glycine and N-acetylcysteine (GlyNAC) improved/corrected GSH deficiency, OxS and mitochondrial dysfunction, we hypothesized that GlyNAC supplementation could increase longevity. We tested our hypothesis by evaluating the effect of supplementing GlyNAC vs. placebo in C57BL/6J mice on (a) length of life; and (b) age-associated GSH deficiency, OxS, mitochondrial dysfunction, abnormal mitophagy and nutrient-sensing, and genomic-damage in the heart, liver and kidneys. Results showed that mice receiving GlyNAC supplementation (1) lived 24% longer than control mice; (2) improved/corrected impaired GSH synthesis, GSH deficiency, OxS, mitochondrial dysfunction, abnormal mitophagy and nutrient-sensing, and genomic-damage. These studies provide proof-of-concept that GlyNAC supplementation can increase lifespan and improve multiple age-associated defects. GlyNAC could be a novel and simple nutritional supplement to improve lifespan and healthspan, and warrants additional investigation.

 

Glycine and N‐acetylcysteine (GlyNAC) supplementation in older adults improves glutathione deficiency, oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, inflammation, insulin resistance, endothelial dysfunction, genotoxicity, muscle strength, and cognition: Results of a pilot clinical trial


GlyNAC supplementation for 24‐weeks in OA was well tolerated and lowered OxS, corrected intracellular GSH deficiency and mitochondrial dysfunction, decreased inflammation, insulin‐resistance and endothelial dysfunction, and genomic‐damage, and improved strength, gait‐speed, cognition, and body composition. Supplementing GlyNAC in aging humans could be a simple and viable method to promote health and warrants additional investigation.

 


 

 

Multifarious Beneficial Effect of Nonessential Amino Acid, Glycine: A Review

Glycine is most important and simple, nonessential amino acid in humans, animals, and many mammals. Generally, glycine is synthesized from choline, serine, hydroxyproline, and threonine through interorgan metabolism in which kidneys and liver are the primarily involved. Generally in common feeding conditions, glycine is not sufficiently synthesized in humans, animals, and birds. Glycine acts as precursor for several key metabolites of low molecular weight such as creatine, glutathione, haem, purines, and porphyrins. Glycine is very effective in improving the health and supports the growth and well-being of humans and animals. There are overwhelming reports supporting the role of supplementary glycine in prevention of many diseases and disorders including cancer. Dietary supplementation of proper dose of glycine is effectual in treating metabolic disorders in patients with cardiovascular diseases, several inflammatory diseases, obesity, cancers, and diabetes. Glycine also has the property to enhance the quality of sleep and neurological functions. In this review we will focus on the metabolism of glycine in humans and animals and the recent findings and advances about the beneficial effects and protection of glycine in different disease states. 

As glycine is a very successful immunomodulator that suppresses the inflammation, its action on arthritis is investigated in vivo through PG-PS model of arthritis. PG-PS is a very crucial structural component of Gram-positive bacterial cell walls and it causes rheumatoid like arthritis in rats. In rats injected with PG-PS which suffer from infiltration of inflammatory cells, synovial hyperplasia, edema, and ankle swelling, these effects of PG-PS model of arthritis can be reduced by glycine supplementation [66].

 

Glycine has a wide spectrum of defending characteristics against different injuries and diseases. Similar to many other nutritionally nonessential amino acids, glycine plays a very crucial role in controlling epigenetics. Glycine has much important physiological function in humans and animals. Glycine is precursor for a variety of important metabolites such as glutathione, porphyrins, purines, haem, and creatine. Glycine acts as neurotransmitter in central nervous system and it has many roles such as antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, cryoprotective, and immunomodulatory in peripheral and nervous tissues. Oral supplementation of glycine with proper dose is very successful in decreasing several metabolic disorders in individuals with cardiovascular disease, various inflammatory diseases, cancers, diabetes, and obesity. More research investigations are needed to explore the role of glycine in diseases where proinflammatory cytokines, reperfusion or ischemia, and free radicals are involved. Mechanisms of glycine protection are to be completely explained and necessary precautions should be taken for safe intake and dose. Glycine holds an enormous potential in enhancing health, growth, and well-being of both humans and animals.

  

Ketogenic Fish – rebuilding social affinity 

Regular readers will have noted that some people with autism, but normal IQ, are deeply troubled by their lack of social affinity and seek out ways to improve it.

Perhaps we can learn something on that subject from Masato Yoshizawa, an evolutionary developmental biologist and neurobiologist at the University of Hawaii. Yes, that’s right, an evolutionary developmental biologist – they exist! Back in 2018 he published a paper called “The evolution of a series of behavioral traits is associated with autism-risk genes in cavefish”.

“Many people first doubted that the fish have an autism-like state; I also doubted it at first,” said Yoshizawa. But as he soon found out, even patterns of gene regulation resembled autistic patients.

His recent paper uses his cavefish to look at how the ketogenic diet affects behaviour. 

In the experiment, cavefish where fed the same ketogenic milk provided to human patients, albeit with a few modifications for fish consumption, and their behavior was monitored. As a comparison, a type of A. mexicanus fish that lives in rivers and not caves were also tested.


The surface fish do not display the same autism like behaviors as their cave dwelling relatives. In the presence of other surface fish, individuals will begin to follow each other and swim together, something rarely seen in cavefish, Yoshizawa said. The surface fish also do not do the repetitive behavior of swimming in circles.

 

Using these fish as a comparison, Yoshizawa and his students watched and waited. Amazingly, after a month of the ketogenic diet, the cavefish began to act like the more social surface fish. They would follow each other in groups and ceased going round in circles. There were some other behaviors, such as attention to a specific task and sleeping, that were unaffected, but overall the results were promising and according to Yoshizawa, suggest dopamine could be key to how the diet affects behavior.

 

According to Yoshizawa, there are two plausible ideas as to how the ketones produced by a ketogenic diet are acting on behavior. The first involves the mitochondria, which use either carbs or fat to produce energy in our cells, and the other involves epigenetics, which simple refers to any non-genetic influence which turns genes on and off.

 

Ketones are known to create detectable increases in gene expression in cells. Pulling apart exactly how things like, diet, environment, genes and neurotransmitters are linked is incredibly difficult but could reveal which pathways are best to target for autism treatments or could identify a specific ketone which works more efficiently than others.

 

 

Cavefish provide clues to the keto diet's effect on autism-like behavior 

 

Metabolic shift toward ketosis in asocial cavefish increases social-like affinity

 

Background

Social affinity and collective behavior are nearly ubiquitous in the animal kingdom, but many lineages feature evolutionarily asocial species. These solitary species may have evolved to conserve energy in food-sparse environments. However, the mechanism by which metabolic shifts regulate social affinity is not well investigated.

Results

In this study, we used the Mexican tetra (Astyanax mexicanus), which features riverine sighted surface (surface fish) and cave-dwelling populations (cavefish), to address the impact of metabolic shifts on asociality and other cave-associated behaviors in cavefish, including repetitive turning, sleeplessness, swimming longer distances, and enhanced foraging behavior. After 1 month of ketosis-inducing ketogenic diet feeding, asocial cavefish exhibited significantly higher social affinity, whereas social affinity regressed in cavefish fed the standard diet. The ketogenic diet also reduced repetitive turning and swimming in cavefish. No major behavioral shifts were found regarding sleeplessness and foraging behavior, suggesting that other evolved behaviors are not largely regulated by ketosis. We further examined the effects of the ketogenic diet via supplementation with exogenous ketone bodies, revealing that ketone bodies are pivotal molecules positively associated with social affinity.

Conclusions

Our study indicated that fish that evolved to be asocial remain capable of exhibiting social affinity under ketosis, possibly linking the seasonal food availability and sociality.

 

Are these behavioral and growth changes induced by ketosis? The KD contains high amounts of fat, sufficient levels of proteins, and a minimum amount of carbohydrates. This question motivated us to test the molecular basis of the effects of KD feeding by supplementing major ketosis metabolites, ketone bodies, to the standard diet.

 

In humans, KD feeding induces ketosis, in which the liver releases beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) and acetoacetate via beta-oxidation of fat [63].

 

Instead of supplying a massive amount of fat using the KD, BHB might be responsible for the majority of effects observed after KD feeding. With this idea, the ketone ester (D-b-hydroxybutyrate-R 1,3-Butanediol Monoester; delta-G® [64]) was provided as a supplement to both surface fish and cavefish for 5 weeks. The ketone ester (KE) was expected to undergo complete hydrolysis by the gut esterases, resulting in two BHB molecules (and acetoacetate) [64]. It does not contain any salt ions, unlike the sodium or potassium salt forms of BHB, nor does it has the racemic L-form, where only the D-form is considered to be biologically active [65]. Since we were unsure whether gut esterases were available in juvenile-adolescent fish at 3 months old, we used 6–7-month-old fish that have a mature gut system but are in the young adult stage. The results indicated that the KE supplementation significantly reduced the serum GKI (Additional file 2: Fig. S8), while promoting nearby interactions in cavefish (Fig. 7A, B). Swimming distance was slightly reduced in cavefish (Fig. 7C). Turning bias was not reduced by KE supplementation in cavefish (Fig. 7D). There was no detectable difference between CD and KE supplemental diets in sleep duration or VAB (Additional file 2: Fig. S9A and B, respectively).

  

We also tested the supplemental feeding of the BHB salt form (sodium salt form of racemic BHB: 50% L-form and 50% D-form). We used 11–12-month-old fish in this study since the younger fish seemed to suffer from the high-salt-containing diet. The 4-week feeding result was essentially the same as the KE-supplemented diet feeding: the BHB salt supplemental diet significantly reduced GKI in the serum of surface and cavefish (Additional file 2: Fig. S10), while promoting nearby interactions in cavefish but reduced the duration of nearby interactions in surface fish (Additional file 2: Fig. S11A, B). No major change in response to the BHB feeding was detected in swimming distance (Additional file 2: Fig. S11C), turning bias (Additional file 2: Fig. S11D), sleep (Additional file 2: Fig. S12A), and VAB (Additional file 2: Fig. S12B) in cavefish, while the BHB salt reduced growth (standard length and weight) in surface fish (Additional file 2: Fig. S12C, D). In contrast, cavefish did not show any detectable negative effects on growth under the BHB salt supplemental feeding (Additional file 2: Fig. S12C, D).

 

In summary, BHB (KE and BHB salt) treatment encompassed the effect of the KD treatment—promoting social interactions. BHB, particularly KE, had a no-detectable negative effect on growth. These facts suggest that ketone bodies can be responsible factors for the positive effects on social behaviors of KD feeding. BHB treatment also indicated that older-age cavefish (6–7 months or 11–12 months old) were still capable of responding to ketone bodies, not only younger age groups (3–4 months old).

 

You can treat an old-fish new tricks!

Indeed, some of our adult readers are treating themselves with ketone esters.

Both ketone esters and ketone salts were trialed in the fish. In humans ketone esters are the clear winner because they provide a much longer lasting effect.

There is no reason why they have to be so expensive, the bulk chemical is not expensive.

  

Conclusion

For longevity and, more importantly, healthy life expectancy it has long been clear that high doses of anti-oxidants are beneficial.

The question is how best to get this effect.

The most potent way is via intravenous infusion of something like ALA (alpha lipoic acid). In some countries intravenous ALA is a mainstream therapy for people with diabetes, not surprisingly thanks to the ALA some of these people also overcome their other health conditions, like heart disease, and increase their healthy lifespan.

Most people will not have this option and probably do not want intravenous therapy anyway.

Oral supplementation with NAC is cheap, effective and available.

Is adding glycine going to have any incremental effect?  Quite possibly it will. If you are lacking glycine, this will hold back your production of GSH (glutathione). Glycine itself might well provide a health benefit.

Dr Sekhar, over at Baylor College in Houston, refers to the “power of three” (NAC, glycine and glutathione/GSH). The immediate, short-lived, beneficial effect is directly from the anti-oxidant effect of NAC itself.

If, like me, you have chosen to take NAC you are experiencing the “power of two” (NAC and Glutathione/GSH).  Glycine is really cheap and so why not take the extra step and add it? You may increase Glutathione/GSH and glycine has its own direct antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.

When it comes to young people with autism who take NAC, is the benefit from the immediate antioxidant effect of NAC, or is it from the increase in GSH?  Here I think we know the answer.  The behavioral effect of NAC is quite short-lived and it matches the short half-life of NAC.  Is there a secondary effect from NAC releasing cysteine that gradually increases GSH (glutathione)? Quite possibly, but in autism you really do need to give NAC 3-4 times a day, so the direct effect of NAC itself looks to be key.

Is Glycine NAC going to be better than NAC for young people with autism? Glycine has its own interesting properties and glycine is cheap. It even can help some of those with sleep problems (3g one hour before bed time).

There are plenty of anecdotal reports on the internet of Aspies finding glycine supplementation helpful - some find it makes them more social.

There is a potential problem for bumetanide-responders. In these people if GABA is operating "in reverse", due to high intracellular chloride, the same may be true of glycine. You would then expect a negative reaction

GABA and glycine in the developing brain

GABA and glycine are major inhibitory neurotransmitters in the CNS and act on receptors coupled to chloride channels. During early developmental periods, both GABA and glycine depolarize membrane potentials due to the relatively high intracellular Cl concentration. Therefore, they can act as excitatory neurotransmitters. GABA and glycine are involved in spontaneous neural network activities in the immature CNS such as giant depolarizing potentials (GDPs) in neonatal hippocampal neurons, which are generated by the synchronous activity of GABAergic interneurons and glutamatergic principal neurons. GDPs and GDP-like activities in the developing brains are thought to be important for the activity-dependent functiogenesis through Ca 2+ and/or other intracellular signaling pathways activated by depolarization or stimulation of metabotropic receptors. However, if GABA and glycine do not shift from excitatory to inhibitory neurotransmitters at the birth and in maturation, it may result in neural disorders including autism spectrum disorders.

 

And those ketone esters (KE)?

Well they are really expensive, when packaged up for humans, but they should be helpful to a sub-group within autism.

Will ketone esters (KE) make our reader Stefan feel more social? Quite possibly, but they are likely too expensive to take every day. Glycine is cheap and worth a try for social affinity, based on the anecdotes from other Aspies.

Some readers are already big fans of ketone esters.  They do not need any further proof from those cavefish in Hawaii.











39 comments:

  1. Nice post Peter!
    I hope we get to hear some real-life experience in the comments...
    /Ling

    ReplyDelete
  2. I’m going to study this thanks Peter. I’ve had glycine powder in my basket of “will this help stop mania” add-on supplements. But now with the excited catatonia dx, and it possibly being misdiagnosed as bipolar 6 yrs ago I’m going to study this and ask Dr his thoughts. Is there a place for it along with the memantine that we are trying as part of excited catatonia tx right now? Hmmm

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  3. It good to see NAC still being sold on amazon in the UK. I believe there were proposals to limit its over the counter sale not long ago?

    I have a separate question, either yourself or others here with experience could help with.

    With my 8 year old its rare he asks a question when he does he points to things, and says something like "that's a" that's a" "that's a" and I may say "dog" for example in response.

    I've tried to encourage him use the phrase "what's that?" but he then see`s it as a question to him & tries to answer the question itself rather than ask, with him saying for example "that's a (blank) ".

    I've tried different techniques but it doesn't seem to work or i just get the echolalia "what's that" when i encourage him.

    I feel if maybe he felt it easier to ask questions it may help his cognition and learning.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi,

      I am not terribly qualified to answer this, but I will give my two cents.

      I had a similar phase with my son when he was 4 or so - the speech therapists asked to just use the correct phrases ourselves instead of trying to correct him. And that eventually he will get the pattern. With time and practice he is slowly getting there. For eg. he still gets mixed up between 'that's why' and 'because'. His struggle feels like how you and I might struggle with a second language. In my opinion, this is not a peculiar problem and improving general health and cognition will improve language and comprehension skills.

      Anvesh

      Delete
    2. "Wh-questions" are a key part of teaching English to kids with special needs. A lot depends on what kind of school your child goes to. In the US there are extensive resources (books, flash cards, computer software) on this specific topic and a speech therapist or special needs teacher would be familiar with them. In the UK, I am not so sure.

      As part of my son's home-program we used these resources from the US. They can all be bought online and sent to the UK. Just look on line for "wh-questions" and autism, special needs and speech therapy.

      To be honest, only when we raised cognition with bumetanide did my son master tricky things like wh-questions, prepositions and personal pronouns.

      Delete
    3. Wow a whole level of resources wasn’t aware of thanks

      Delete
    4. You can find lots of worksheets in twinkl for 'Wh-questions'. I use it regularly. You can find lot of SEN resources too . Very helpful.

      Delete
  4. Regarding ketones, my son with moderate Autism and severe Apraxia of Speech responds well to MCT oil. His speech is sharper and a bit more intelligible if I have him on MCT oil throughout the day. When I stop giving it to him I notice a difference. Are there any inferences we can make about someone who responds well to ketones? Might this indicate mitochondria dysfunction, oxidative stress, inflammation, or anything else? Just looking for any clues to help treat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MCT gives a mild dose of ketones that is short-lived.

      If you have a good response to MCT, try a more potent source of ketones, like a ketone salt or a ketone ester. Ketone IQ is just one example used by some readers and their children - its effect is much longer lasting than MCT and more substantial.

      Ketones have multiple effects. One key one is on gene expression, because ketones are epigenetic modulators. This means some beneficial genes might be turned on briefly by the MCT oil. Try and maximize the benefit with a ketone ester.

      Delete
    2. Will do, thank you!!

      Delete
    3. What are you supposed to do with the ketone iq - just drink it in a dosage without change to diet? At some specific time in the day, several times during the day or just once?

      Delete
    4. You do not need to change diet. The ketone ester drinks like Ketone IQ release BHB into the bloodstream. The cheaper ketone supplements produce a short-term spike in BHB, so you would need multiple doses throughout the day. The new ones produce BHB lasting a few hours. You take it when you want the effect, so for example before school.

      Delete
    5. Which is superior Ketoforce + C8 or Ketone Iq ?

      Delete
    6. I do not believe you can buy Ketoforce any more.

      Delete
    7. Can you pls tell a brand name of Ketone Ester or Ketone IQ in UK which i can buy from Amazon pls. I tried searching . But couldnt get anything local.
      Will Ketosource C8 MCT oil give any benefits?

      Delete
    8. The good ketone products are generally not sold in the UK.

      Have a look on iHerb.com

      They ship to the UK and are usually much cheaper for any US branded supplement.

      MCT is not very potent, but some people do find a benefit.

      Delete
    9. Thanks for your reply.
      I will have a look iHerb

      Delete
  5. Peter have you done a post on mirna? I tried the Google trick and nothing came up.

    -Stephen

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stephen, I have not written about micro RNA (miRNA) yet.

      Dysregulated miRNA is associated with autism and other neurological conditions. It is one mechanism for reducing expression of certain key genes.

      You can actually measure miRNA from a saliva sample.

      I will add it to my "to do list".

      Delete
  6. Hello, is there any mention of doses for people with autism? If I were to mix the two supplements? Thanks a lot

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tamara, the research on Glycine-NAC is among old people and healthy young adults without oxidative stress.

      In old people you need 2.4g of NAC plus 2.4g of glycine, or higher, to have much effect.

      In autism, many children and adults are taking 2.4g to 3g a day of NAC, split into 3 or 4 doses.

      It makes sense to first establish whether NAC has a benefit. Then try glycine and see if that provides an addition benefit.

      The standard dose used in "glycine-only" studies is about 3–5 grams per day. 90g a day has been found to be safe.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for writing this blog.

      Delete
  7. I took 1mg Bumetanide for 37 days. I want to try double the dose. Should i take both mg together or seperate?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suggest both together, in other words 2mg once a day.

      Not everyone is a bumetanide responder. At least you will know for sure.

      Delete
    2. How long does Atorvastatin have to be tried? Thank.

      Delete
  8. Peter, can you please add intracranial hypertension on to your list to write about pls. Thanks!

    -Stephen

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8465615/

    https://journals.lww.com/jneuro-ophthalmology/fulltext/2013/12000/idiopathic_intracranial_hypertension_in_a_child.20.aspx

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi Peter,Thank you for the NAc suggestion, we have started and the OCD has reduced.Not completely gone but a lot better and much tolerable.I. am waiting for the bumetanide to trial but we have another problem .I don't know if its pandas or just a behaviour but he has started growling like a dog.The first time he did it ,I said stop and he moved closer to me and then did it again and stared into my eyes and smiled like he was challenging me.
    Now its a lot more and it seems he doesn't know that he's doing it.We went to the library on Saturday and small children were staring at him.I don't know what to do.DO you think this may be pandas and what can I do to get rid of it.Please help.It breaks my heart to hear him do it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If it is a controlled growl and no just a random sound, I doubt it is PANDAS, rather it is communication.

      It is a game and I suggest you join in with your own animal noises. Take him to see animals at a farm or zoo.

      Don't be worried about the stares of others. Teach him lots of different animal noises and soon other kids will want to join in.

      Delete
    2. It sounds like what Peter is suggesting is called "joining" by the Son Rise folks. You might want to read "The Autism Language Launcher: A Parent's Guide to Helping Your Child Turn Sounds and Words into Simple Conversations"

      Delete
  10. Thank you Peter .I will try this .I actually growled back yesterday evening and he looked shocked and then later laughed but I was scared of reinforcing it before it becomes a habit .

    I will take him to the zoo next weekend and see how we get on .He knows animal sounds as he has been taught but I guess we can revisit it again .
    Thank you so much .I was worried it could be pandas .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The emergence of pretend play is a very good sign. Do all you can to encourage it.

      Visiting the zoo is setting it in context and much more fun than watching animals on TV or iPad.

      Delete
    2. Thank you Peter .hes playing with his siblings and they chase themselves around the house .Normally h would ignore them but now plays with his brother a lot now .I didn’t see the growl as pretend play before but it makes sense now .Thank you

      Delete
  11. Hi Peter
    How about NMN?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Supplements that increase NAD+, like nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) are potentially useful to treat all the conditions which feature low levels of NAD+, including:

    Aging
    Type 2 diabetes
    Mitochondrial dysfunction
    Autism

    The level of evidence in human trials is still weak, but some readers of this blog are using nicotinamide riboside (NR).

    There is one free way to increase NAD+ and many other beneficial factors involved in both aging and autism, like IGF-1, and that is exercise. This often overlooked in both aging and autism. Time to put down the iPad and visit the gym.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Glycine (Thorne) reliably produced severe sleep onset insomnia in both my wife and our son. Well, reliably in the sense that we saw it on the four occasions we tried it (we kept trying because it seemed so counterintuitive). And my wife never has any trouble falling asleep normally. (For me it gives better sleep quality, is is normally the case).

    However, collagen Powder (e.g. Great Lakes) gives neither of them any trouble and, in fact, he used to like a teaspoon of it at bedtime.

    Collagen powder is very roughly one third glycine. So I assume there is something about the balancing effect of the other amino acids that negates whatever seemed to be causing the sleep onset insomnia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David, this paradoxical reaction to glycine is mentioned above at the end of the post in the part under:-

      GABA and glycine in the developing brain

      In some people, particularly bumetanide responders, glycine will not be calming and sleep inducing. The level of chloride in neurons determines the effect of GABA and glycine.

      I was informed that in some people with autism who take IVIG there can be negative reactions because some of these products include glycine added to them.

      This means that people with autism should check for the presence of glycine as an ingredient.

      Why it also affects your wife this way is interesting. Something similar is found with folate receptor antibodies. Often the neurotypical parent(s) of a child with autism share the same elevated level of folate receptor antibodies, but are not disabled by it.

      Delete
    2. Thanks - I missed mentioning an interesting key point; the dose was given in the AM, around 12+ hours from when the effect on sleep happened. I'd rather expect the effect have worn off by then.

      Also, it's puzzled me for ages why taking glycine in the collagen powder would have no such effect.

      Delete

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